Georgian President’s Plea To Allies: Stop Russia And Do Not Back Illegitimate Government In Georgia

As the United States under a second Trump Administration rolls out its ‘America First’ foreign policy, President Salome Zourabichvili, who represented Georgian people at this week's inauguration of Donald Trump in Washington D.C, says she picked up on the new U.S. leadership's vow to make their country stronger.

But if America wants to be first and strong, she goes on to add, it cannot be humiliated in a small country in the Caucasus — "by one man who is dictating his policy and serving the interests of Vladimir Putin" she said of Georgian tycoon Bidzina Ivanishvili, who's been sanctioned by the U.S. for undermining democracy and allowing Russia to benefit.

Yesterday in Washington D.C, President Zourabichvili sat down with TURAN's correspondent Alex Raufoglu for an exclusive interview to discuss the current state of protests in Georgia, and the Western response. She urged Georgia's allies to refrain from backing the Georgian Dream's government, which is "the result of rigged elections," as she put it, and to continue calling for new elections instead.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Question: Georgia has gone through difficult times lately. While I have seen you visiting the U.S. before — when you were in the Palace, you had some sort of ceremonial power — this time, however, it looks like you now represent a wider, larger mandate. Could you please describe that mandate?

Answer: It is the mandate of the people that have been on the streets for two months now: not only because the elections were rigged, and a clear Russian interference — as it has been the case with other countries close to us, like Romania or Moldova — but because the government that was issued of these rigged elections without mandate, tries to take Georgia back to Russia. That's a sense of the decision of the 28th of November, and that's what really provoked this massive protest on the streets. Because Georgians, each time their independence is at stake — the future of their country — that is something that they do not accept.

Question: And this story goes back to even a year before the election...

Answer: Two years...

Question: Correct, when they tried to push "the Russian law" for the first time. They failed, and then revisited that decision. The Georgian Dream, aka "Russian Dream", has been so eagerly trying to push Russian propaganda in the country that has been occupied by Russia. Why would they do that?

Answer:  That's a question you would have to ask them. Because clearly, if they had not done all of that, they had quite some chance to still win the elections after being in office for 12 years. What really created the loss of confidence of the population in them was the "Russian law," and the other Russian laws that were pushed at the time, was the anti European and anti American rhetoric: very aggressive. If one reads [Bidzina] Ivanishvili's speech or the Prime Minister's speeches, it's really a declaration of war on our closest partners — those countries that have been constantly supporting Georgia since its independence in 1991. Georgia is the one biggest recipient per capita of American aid over 33 years.

So, it's not comprehensible to the Georgian population, where suddenly you wage such a rhetoric against your partners. It's not comprehensible why you turn to China with a strategic partnership, and lose the strategic partnership with the United States — which Armenia is taking up. So, all of that doesn't make sense. And so, there is a very big reaction from the whole of the population, because what we are seeing is something that we have not seen in the country for many years. Maybe at the time of the independence and even then, which is a movement that has reached in all the cities of Georgia, a movement that encompasses all segments of the of the population, which touches business, even the Church, has been witnessing the same type of reactions within a very loyal institution that generally does not distance itself from the authorities — that's very traditional in Orthodox countries. So, all of that is showing that we are in a very different situation. Because the crucial issue for Georgia is independence, which is at stake.

Question: What I'm hearing is that here's another country where a pro-Russian regime uses democratic means to come to power and after being there for 12 years, refuses to take the exit door and try to instead steal the future of the country's democracy to secure long-term power. Is that the case?

Answer: It's not only a question of their power - it's a part of the story. Yes, probably the people that are in power want to stay in power, they have many benefits. Corruption has reached new heights in the country, so they don't want to lose that power, it's very clear. But it's more than that. They are submitted to Russian strategy and to Russian policy, and that's why there is such a strong reaction.

If it were only a political issue - one party doesn't want to concede and stays in power, there would have been reactions, but not of that length and not of that strength. Now it's really a vital issue. Everybody, if you talk to the people on the street, they describe this situation as being defending the future of that country, the independence of the country, and the freedom of the country, which they have won from the Soviet Union 33 years ago.

Question: Interesting how the Georgian people had been for a long time deceived by this regime

Answer: Yeah, myself...

Question: ... Because the regime was "masked"... And not only the Georgian people, the entire European continent was also a subject to their deception.

Answer:  But there were two deceptions. One is that it was regime that pledged to democracy, and to the reforms, and accepted the recommendations of the European Union and then gradually moved to a more and more autocratic regime to a regime that is really in the hands of one person that is not the formal leader of the country — behind the scenes, but he has been taking all the decisions. So that's one deception.

Question: Mr Ivanishvili?

Answer: That's Ivanishvili... The second deception is that presenting itself as a pro Western, pro European regime, and that's why people voted for this party, which was, if we remember, when they came to power, it was a party that, In the constitutional changes of 2016 introduced the article that pledges that Georgia — all institutions, have to do everything in their power to pursue the Euro-Atlantic integration objective. They introduced it in the Constitution. And that was a choice of the Georgian population to support that program, in a way. And that program, to which they gave a mandate clearly, has been completely turned upside down, And suddenly, after an evolution that was predictable, the 28th of November, the Prime Minister, who was not very legitimate following this election, and who has no mandate to change the orientation of the country, says, "I suspend all our paths towards the European Union", which means, in turn, NATO, Euro-Atlantic — it's everything together. Who gave him that mandate? No one.

Question: Now, the fact is that you are here, and they are not. And there is currently a genuine understanding in the West of Georgian fight for democracy because the Georgian people seem to have successfully saved Europe from another Orban, or another Russian regime that was using the "Georgian train" towards European capitals. And now, after saving the Western mindset from the Russian regime's "disease," if you want, now the second phase of this fight is to save Georgia itself from this "Russian disease." Is that correct?

Answer: Yes.

Question: Can we succeed?

Answer: Certainly...

Question: And what is necessary to succeed?

Answer:  Two things. One, it's a fight for us that we have to win. It's the Georgian population, and I think that people are very conscious of that, that you have to do the job yourself. Nobody else is going to do the job for you, and it's not a job that is going to be done through violence or instability. We have to win over the country through peaceful means. And if you look at the protests, they are extremely responsible, organized and peaceful. And it shows a degree of responsibility of these people that suddenly shows us that Georgia can be organized, which we are all surprised. So that's one part. We have to do our part.

The second one is that we need our partners to understand what is at stake in Georgia:it's not only democracy which, again, is ours to defend, but it's really the balance of power with Russia. If Russia has not been able to win Ukraine — and in fact, has lost many grounds. We don't know how the outcome will be, but still, it has lost. It is no longer the major military power in Europe. It has consolidated NATO; it has not managed to raise in the public opinions of Europe any anti-real war sentiment in the ways that it used to do in the past. So all of those are major defeats of Russia.  

But if Russia, while not being able to win over Kyiv in three days, manages to win over the Caucasus without any cost, just because they have a puppet government in Georgia and managed to manipulate elections, then they're going to manipulate elections in many other places, like Romania or Moldova or elsewhere, and they will win over influence.

So it's really a question of the strengths of America. I've heard the announcement of President Trump, of the new Secretary of State. And if America wants to be first, wants to be strong, it cannot be humiliated in the Caucasus by a small country of 3.7 million inhabitants, by one man who is dictating his policy and who is serving the interests of Mr. Putin. That's not being strong, that's being weak. So that's why I'm comforted by the idea. But that's a geopolitical fight: the democratic fight is for us, but the geopolitical - we're not strong enough, we need the attention and we need the presence, political presence, which means that we need strong statements to say to Russia, "hands off Georgia."

Question: Will it be enough though? Reaction in itself without action?

Answer:  That's action... Because the problem with Russia is that Russia was led to think that nobody was going to react, that there was no longer attention. And that's maybe a problem that we had with the previous administration that was taken up by other issues: Ukraine, Middle East. So there was not much attention to Georgia. And the impression that it left, probably with Russia, is that it could start maneuvering. It had the leaders of this "Georgian //Russian Dream" that they could use or abuse on which they have — I don't know what are the links, whether it's compromise or whether it's ideological similarity — but they have that, and they try to use it because they thought that it would not resonate anywhere as much. And for some time, they were right.

Question: Two final questions:  There's one champion in this town that keeps raising the Georgia story, who is actually an "American first" man — Congressman Wilson. It looks like, by inviting you here, he also prevented the wrong narrative on Georgia from finding its way to the Inauguration. How would you describe his efforts, and how to make sure that there are more Congressman Wilsons who are willing to jump in, and carry on this torch?

Answer:  Well, I think that he has understood the picture of what is happening, and is sending very clear messages about what it means for America if China comes and takes over the Anaklia Port, which is negotiation that is underway — I don't know exactly at what stage, because we don't know anything. It's all very obscure.

Iran is there, and the Prime Minister has been visiting Iran and sitting next to terrorist leaders, and has been meeting with the Ambassador of China every other day. So all of that is the picture that describes Georgia, which is the very clear message to be sent to the new American leadership that you cannot let that happen without at least noticing and reacting to it.

So I think by that he's clearly very much supporting the Georgian nation, because the challenge today is how not to resume normal relations with illegitimate government, no business as usual, but at the same time not isolate Georgia as a country, as a nation, and not let America be drawn out of this region, where are many of tomorrow's strategic trade energy interests, if the infrastructure projects are continued, and if one doesn't let China come to enter the Black Sea, which nobody needs.

Question: It looks like the "Georgian/Russian Dream"  doesn't give up as they try to roam around and buy influence in different capitals. I'm sure you've seen the statements coming out from Baku where GD officials recently visited, and there were statements about getting rid of civil society, etc. What would be your response to them?

Answer: I don't respond to them. They do not govern Georgia anymore. They are not recognized by most of our partners. It's understandable that regionally, the immediate neighbors. It's a different position. But otherwise, none of the European partners or the Americans are recognizing them. But more importantly, they are not recognized by their own people, and so they are hiding themselves. They have no policy, no decisions have been taken. 

The only announcement that they made was that they were going to start the court proceedings against the national movement of 13 years ago — which they didn't do for 12 years — and that's the only announced policy for the new de-facto government/parliament. 

So, I think that we should not pay too much attention to them, because they have ceased to govern Georgia. What is important now is the political structures that will be given to the movement that we have, and how that will lead to new elections, and to a new stable future for Georgia.