Armenianologist: "Armenia can save itself by restoring relations with Turkey..."

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Turan: After the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights ruled in favor of Doğu Perinçek in May 2017, Turkey seemed to believe that the "Armenian genocide" allegations were over. What do you think?

Çakmaklı: Doğu Perinçek's complaint dealt a major blow to the anti-Turkish activities of the Armenian state and the Armenian Diaspora in the world in connection with the "Armenian genocide" ideology. Until now, they thought they would be able to pass judgments condemning Turkey in international courts. It turned out that the decisions of the "Armenian genocide" submitted and adopted by the parliaments of different countries of the world were of a political nature and had no legal significance. There must be a court decision to prove any crime, and the decision of the European Court of Human Rights in favor of Doğu Perinçek also limited the ability of Armenians to appeal on this issue. However, this does not mean that Armenians will not be able to appeal to the ECtHR on this issue or that they will refuse this view, on which they have been dwelling for years. In this sense, the lawsuit won by Doğu Bey in court can be considered a victory to an extent. The main thing is that the bills submitted by Armenians to the parliaments will not conclude that the events of 1915 were a crime. The "documents" included in the bills submitted by the Armenians cannot be accepted as legal documents, as they are fake and contain the memoirs of different authors, written by a novelist, etc. Furthermore, there is the 1948 UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, and the Armenian claims contradict the articles of that Convention.

Historically, the Ottoman government's decision of 27 May 1915 to relocate, i.e. the temporary relocation of Armenians living in one part of the country, was a legitimate right of that country and was carried out very precisely as a coercive step dictated by the war, and no crime of genocide was committed at that time. There was no fatal incident on April 24, which is the date that Armenians made a fuss every year. 235 Armenian insurgents were arrested in Istanbul, and most of them were later released. For example, one of them, the composer Komitas, later moved to France and lived there. He lost his mind in 1930, and Armenians are now propagandizing that if Komitas was not arrested in 1915, he would not have gone mad in 1930. The "genocide" propaganda of the Armenians consists of such absurd allegations.

Turan: Did Armenians suffer casualties during the relocation?

Çakmaklı: Of course they did. We do not deny this. The severe conditions of the war were also accompanied by various infectious diseases. Hundreds of thousands of people died from the disease and other causes, so not only Armenians but also the Turkish-Muslim population suffered casualties. There were also raids by illegal gangs on relocated Armenian caravans, as well as killings and looting of property. Operations were also carried out in various places against the armed Armenian rebels. But the state has taken all possible measures to protect its citizens. However, it was still impossible to escape the events that resulted in human deaths. If the goal of the Ottoman state was to physically eliminate the Armenians, why would it do so in the territories where they were relocated? So, they would solve the problem in the places where they lived.

The world's most famous historians also confirm that the state had no policy of eliminating a nation. The world's most famous historians, Armenianologists, and lawyers recently attended the conference on 1915 events organized by the Turkish Directorate of Communications. I also gave a speech at this conference. I described Armenian-Turkish relations in Armenian-language newspapers of 1918-1920.

At that time, the events in the media, published by even the strongest Armenian nationalists, were not called a "genocide" or a planned murder against a nation. On the contrary, the newspapers of that time blamed the Armenians themselves and said that Turkey would be the only friendly country and that there was no alternative to establishing relations with it. The Armenian delegation stayed in Istanbul for months and asked for help from Talat Pasha, Enver Pasha, and Halil Pasha, and they were honored to be friends with Turkey. Of course, in those years, there was no idea that Armenians were "subjected to genocide."

Turan: For two years now, President Biden's statement about "genocide" in his April 24 address has been forgotten after several hours of euphoria in Turkey. Do you think that the Armenian Diaspora in the West has weakened its work in this direction?

Çakmaklı: No previous US president has used this word in his April 24 speech. Because they understood the lie. In fact, American authorities are well aware that the events of 1915 are not a "genocide." But in the political struggle, there were those who wanted to use this tool to get the votes of Armenian voters living in the United States. There was a president who promised to use this word on the eve of the election but did not say it after the election. For example, Barack Obama did not say "genocide", but "great disaster". Biden's presidency came at a time when tensions between Turkey and the United States were high on many issues, and Biden sought to use it as a tool of pressure on Turkey.

However, there were those in the American state who immediately said that this action was wrong. Many say this is not a matter for politicians. Apparently, Biden's use of the word "genocide" this year did not change anything.

It is impossible to have something be accepted under pressure. Putting pressure on Turkey in this way is also a meaningless attempt and it has no meaning. I think they understood that. If Biden had proposed setting up a history commission to clarify the matter, it would have been more meaningful. Both the world and the Armenians themselves have realized that the ideology of the "Armenian genocide" is a hollow ideology. It is due to the impossibility of achieving the goals behind his futile attempts. Since Armenians have nothing else to present to the world, they are still facing an audience through the "genocide" and, of course, this is disgusting, and this ideology is collapsing every year. Because with lies and fake documents, it is possible to reach only a certain point.

Turan: The first steps have been taken to normalize Turkish-Armenian relations. The first meeting was held in Moscow after Ankara and Yerevan appointed special envoys. Is there any work being done in that direction?

Çakmaklı: I think that there is no problem here from the Turkish point of view. Turkey is sincerely ready to establish relations with its neighbor, to open its borders. In fact, Armenia needs such normalization, and for this to happen, Armenia must resolve some issues. In 2009, two protocols were signed between Turkey and Armenia. There are many opinions that it was not approved. But the main reason was that these protocols contradicted the Armenian Constitution because the territorial claims to the Eastern Anatolian provinces of Turkey are enshrined in the Armenian Constitution, and it is still in force.

Earlier, Armenia had territorial claims in the 1991 Declaration of Independence, which are also included in the 1995 Constitution.  Now, Armenia needs to make amendments to its Constitution to recognize the territorial integrity of Turkey. A commission has been set up in the country to amend the constitution. But this is "a dog and pony show".

In order for the contacts to continue, Armenia puts forward no conditions for establishing relations with Turkey. In itself, the condition is already there. What kind of relations can we talk about without giving up these territorial claims and the so-called "Armenian genocide" related activities?

Turkey shows generosity in this matter. In 1918, it did everything for the existence of Armenia. It even demanded that Azerbaijan, which was at war with Armenia, provide fuel and oil to Armenia, and saved the Armenians from starvation.

The situation is about the same now. Armenia can save itself by restoring relations with Turkey. With Azerbaijan as well ...

Negotiations are underway, at the representative level. It is possible that negotiations will continue at the MFA level at some stage. As international organizations and some states are interested in this, Armenia must agree to such an agreement.

Turan: How does the Armenian side react to the steps taken to normalize Turkish-Armenian relations?

Çakmaklı: These days, Armenia is really facing the question of "what to do?". The reaction of the Armenian society to the establishment of relations with Turkey is different. A group of them, chauvinist politicians, oppose it, they still look at Turkey with hostility, unfortunately, they are in the majority. They are still able to gather the anti-Turkish masses around them but they do not have any suggestions to make. Another group fears that strong Turkish capital will take over the Armenian economy and enslave Armenians. The government intends to maintain its power in Armenia against the background of political developments and wants to create an opportunity for the people to breathe to get their support.

There are people who are a little familiar with Turkey and the world, who support the normalization of relations; however, no one hears their voices because this group is a minority. In this case, the government must take decisive steps but Pashinyan has not yet shown such courage. They see the negotiation process with both Azerbaijan and Turkey as a way to prolong the time.

Turan: Under your leadership, the Turkish Republic of Iravan (Yerevan) was declared on May 10, 2020, you prepared the attributes of the republic and created the National and Consultative Assembly. The State Council also operates. Can you provide information on the current stages of your work?

Çakmaklı: The proclamation of the Turkish Republic of Iravan (TRI) was a demand of time, and there were such initiatives before us. A state called Armenia has been established in our historical territories, millions of people living there have been expelled from their territories and killed, and a thousand misfortunes have befallen them.

People of Western Azerbaijani descent want to return to their historical territories. This is their natural right, and now, we demand that international organizations recognize this right. We continue to work to get our rights. At the same time, by expanding the organizational work, we are expanding our activities to form and promote the TRI as a legal state. We have started to establish regional centers in Azerbaijan and Turkey.

We continue to work to implement the idea of ​​the TRI. We want our people to embrace this idea. We do not recognize a state called Armenia.