The fight for women's rights should go on 365 days a year

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- Shahla khanim, has there been any positive change in the situation of women's rights in Azerbaijan in recent years?

- There have been some positive changes in the situation of women's rights in Azerbaijan in recent years. But to some extent, this does not mean fundamental changes. We can see slight advantages in some indicators. For example, in the field of early marriages, we have better indicators than in previous years, which is gratifying. But there are serious problems in a big way, and we cannot talk about serious progress in women's rights yet.

I would like to note that the main positive change is not in the situation of women's rights, but in the situation of the attitude to women's rights. There is a more conscious and mature approach to the issue, which is gratifying. First of all, I feel that society itself understands the existence of problems in the field of women's rights and has a more tolerant and more conscious approach to this issue. Although we faced very serious pressure when we talked about this issue in the past, today enough people are comfortable talking about women's rights and acknowledging that there are serious problems in this area and that special attention should be paid to this area. On the other hand, 10-15 years ago, the Azerbaijani government completely denied or took a very lenient approach to some of the issues of women's rights, which created a need for additional energy and additional initiatives for women's rights defenders. That is, we have been trying for years to convince the government that serious measures are needed in this area. But this is no longer the case today. It is gratifying that, although late and not in the form we want, the National Action Plans were adopted in Azerbaijan last year on a number of difficult issues. We have a Law on Domestic Violence adopted in 2010. For 10 years, it did not have an Action Plan, which is the cornerstone of the implementation mechanism. It was finally adopted in November last year. Also, the National Action Plan, which includes a comprehensive approach to selective abortion, was adopted in February last year, which could be a chance for Azerbaijan to get rid of an embarrassing issue. As you know, for several years now, Azerbaijan has been ranked second in the world in terms of selective abortions according to UN estimates, i.e. China is in the first place and Azerbaijan is in the second place around the world for the worst situation in terms of murder of girls in the womb. Thus, the need for a comprehensive approach to at least these two issues has already been recognized at the national and state levels. These issues have been on the agenda of Azerbaijan for several years and are a priority area. These were the necessary steps to bring the situation of women's rights to a more positive level, which should be appreciated. But, of course, we have a long way to go. Unfortunately, both action plans have some shortcomings and deficiencies, the expertise of all parties was not used in the development of these plans, and such action plans should have focused on cross-cutting issues, which we did not see. But in any case, we need such policies and reference documents, now the main task is to make their implementation of the maximum quality.

- Despite the fact that it is 2021, we are still struggling with many obscurant problems, such as selective abortions, early marriages, and exclusion of girls from education. What is the reason for this? Insufficient enlightenment, or the dominance of mentality or religious factors in society?

- Of course, if we talk about selective abortions, early marriages, exclusion of girls from education, domestic violence, reproductive health, political participation, and other difficulties, we must talk about them in the general vision format on women's rights. What are the causes of these problems? First of all, there is a lack of enlightenment. Enlightenment is a constant, long-term work to be done at all levels. Enlightenment should be conducted not only with adults but also with all people, girls and boys, men and women, from the earliest age, not only in schools but also in preschool age.

We must fight against gender-based stereotypes, prejudices, which call into question a fair approach, in our mentality, national and moral values. We must put an end to the discriminatory approach to our women in the centuries-old traditions. For years, our women have taken on the burden of the family - traditionally caring for the family, children, the elderly, and the household as a whole.

Moreover, we have a religious factor, which to some extent puts us back. In the sense that the distorted form of religious arguments is, unfortunately, more accessible to society, so there are very ignorant approaches to some issues. We must defeat them with both religious and legal arguments. We need very deep enlightenment to break those stereotypes.

In short, the key is enlightenment. Along with enlightenment, there is general illiteracy. An educated person, a cultured person, inevitably has a different approach to universal human rights and human values. More positive approach. Unfortunately, with the decline in education, we are witnessing the opposite.

- Let's talk about the role of women in society. Why are women not so active in government bodies, departments, parliament, as well as civil society and political parties? Or is the number of active women small? What prevents this? Why don't women fight for it themselves? Or is it due to men or the socio-political climate in the country?

- In general, women are active. Women have always been more active in their lives, at the family and community levels. In order to reach higher levels, barriers regarding women's concerns must be removed so that they can participate in government bodies, departments, governance, parliament, and politics as a whole. I am not talking about high management, today, even if an Azerbaijani woman wants to work in her ordinary profession, she must first systematize household concerns at the family level so that when she comes home, let her work aside, her failure to get some job done at home does not slap her in the face figuratively. Let no one say that, “what good does your work do me if there is no lunch, my shirt is not ironed, etc.?” In other words, women's family and household concerns must be resolved at the first level so that she can take some steps to support the family at the second level and the family in general. If women often give birth at a certain reproductive age, of course, they lag behind in their work, they have to take maternity leave. They usually lag behind in professional labor for 8-10 years when they give birth to a child in a row. And it is generally difficult to return to work. Because today life is too fast, everything is very changeable. The skills that a woman acquired 7 or 10 years ago on that eve are no longer suitable for the modern job market. Therefore, it is very difficult for a woman to come to that level and compete, to get a job economically by attending certain courses. Moreover, if we want to push women to governance and political participation, we must solve all these previous issues. In short, what hinders women is the unequal distribution of gender roles in the family for years and centuries. After these roles change, we can talk about some fundamental changes.

You ask, are men or the socio-political climate hindering women? None directly. But each as a whole. If men neither hinder women nor reduce the burden on women in families, if the responsibilities of every man are not reconsidered, if every man is not ready to expand his responsibilities, then we cannot talk about any fair approach or barrier-free struggle. Some men can say that a woman should come and be their comrade-in-arms. But there is a woman waiting for him in every man's house, and this is an example for that woman so that certain conditions must be created for that woman as well. Therefore, the approach to the issue must be taken in a comprehensive manner.

- Feminism has been a trend in the country in recent years. However, the attitude to feminism in society is ambiguous, either as a result of their actions or as a result of government propaganda. I would even say that the attitude to feminism in society is very bad. What do you think is the reason for this?

- The point is that there is a serious mistake here. The mistake is that feminism is shown in Azerbaijan as a trend of recent years. In fact, this is not the case. Everyone who deals with women's rights and gender equality is, in fact, an integral part of feminism. It is not necessary that a women's rights activist protects women's rights. People who appreciate, understand, and promote women's rights among both women and men can be presented as people with a feminist approach. But in the last two years, people who celebrate March 8 with a significant march are presented as the founders of feminism. This is a wrong approach. Because the number of people trying to bring women's rights, which embody the values ​​of feminism, and human rights to the highest level in Azerbaijan has been increasing for the last 20 years. We cannot put this 20-year work under the feet of the work of the last two years. Because great work has been done. Today, the existence of women who have the courage to start that feminist march is, in fact, the result of the fact that the older generations laid the foundation before them. Therefore, the presentation needs to be reconsidered. For me, it is impossible to achieve good results with a radical step. I think that the presentation of recent years is a radical presentation. It is a very irritating presentation. We must take into account the strengths and weaknesses of society. We need to know that presenting feminism in this form is smashing all we have done. We need to know that society will not understand this correctly. The steps that have caused so much irritation even among people having a good attitude towards feminism need to be reconsidered. I insist that it is more commendable to take it slow in 365 days to take women a step further, rather than to organize that march labouredly once a year in spite of everything. However, I still understand that there is a factor of youth, impatience, and rebellion. But if this revolt does not take us anywhere, then this method should be reconsidered. I think that although the March 8 march was a very courageous step, it is necessary to be more cautious, more restrained, more rational. The process of disgust with feminism will not continue in this form. I really hope so.

- What is needed for women's rights not to be violated in the country, for women to take better places in society, to be active in the socio-political life of the country? What are your suggestions?

- Every woman has potential. If every woman has certain opportunities, she is able to rise above the level at which she exists. Therefore, the issue should go in several stages. First, it must be done by the woman herself. The issue of her education must be brought forward without compromise, unequivocally, and conditions must be created for her to complete her secondary education at least until the end. Otherwise, a woman without secondary education will not achieve anything. It would be very good if the education is continuous. In parallel, a woman should have access to information in many areas. For example, reproductive health is the bringing together of a woman's whole body, soul, and all mental and physical harmony, taking into account her physiological and hormonal issues as a whole. It is an issue that will affect a woman's entire life. However, women's opportunities to be enlightened on this issue are very low. Very serious reproductive health education is needed. There must be a conscious approach to the upbringing of girls and women in general, that is, a fair approach to the family, leadership, and decision-making, and a fair environment within the family. That is, work with the family should be done at the second level, and then serious work should be done at the school level. As girls and women are educated and supported at the family level, their self-confidence will increase. As this increases, their activism and leadership potential will increase. That is, it is possible to increase the activity in a natural way, not artificially.

In general, the state has a great responsibility. The phenomenon of early marriages must be unequivocally prevented. In fact, there is a very convenient way that a person under the age of 18 cannot get married. Until being entitled to get a marriage certificate, performing religious marriage ceremonies should be prohibited. There is such an order on paper. However, in practice, we do not see its application. Mullahs who perform those religious marriage ceremonies should be severely punished. Usually, families do not consent their children to unite without a religious marriage or state marriage. If the religious community is in full solidarity with the state, we will have prevented this phenomenon of early marriage. If we prevent this, then the chances of girls getting an education will increase. At least they can finish high school.

Then some laws need to be seriously considered. The existence of those laws is good. But they have serious deficiencies and shortcomings that need expertise. These laws must be reconsidered, some provisions must be rewritten. The implementation mechanism of laws is also important. Although existing National Action Plans have deficiencies, it is better to have them than not to have them. It is necessary to ensure the implementation of those very well. It is needed to make the transition from the paper to real life. Without this, there can be no real progress.

In general, a comprehensive approach to women's rights is needed. If the number of negative phenomena in a country is increasing (for example, physical violence, murders of women, suicides are on the rise in the last few years), it means that we have not been able to correctly diagnose the problem. Regardless of the cause, a symptomatic approach will not change this situation without a realistic assessment.

And, of course, it is necessary to involve civil society as a whole in this work. Since 2014, the work of civil society has been completely destroyed and completely paralyzed. What we see today are the remnants of civil society. There is no such thing as a professional and sustainable civil society today. No state can solve even smaller problems without the participation of civil society. The whole world has gone through this process. If modern states have achieved those results, they have achieved it only with the participation of all sectors. Today, if we claim to build a strong state, we cannot achieve the status we claim in a place where civil society, media, and political organizations are weak. I hope so much that the government will realize this and correct this embarrassing situation soon.