"The EU works with the whole society of Azerbaijan"

Turan News Agency’s farewell interview with Ambassador Kobia, the Head of the EU Mission to Azerbaijan

Q: What are the achievements of the EU over the last four years ?

"In a nutshell, the greatest achievement over the past 4 years is the overall widening and deepening of relations between the EU and Azerbaijan. When I say "Azerbaijan", it means all layers of the population of the country", said Ambassador Roland Kobia, summing up his 4-year work in Baku.

It was a period of intense and active work with successes, but also challenges at times.  The work was carried out not only with the government and political parties, but also with the regions, civil society, activists, the media, artists, businessmen, students, etc.

"When I first arrived in Baku, I soon realized that the EU was very little known. It took many efforts to inform and explain what the EU is, what are our values, and what our political agenda with Azerbaijan is. The Member states of the EU have also done great work in that regard. I think that today, after four years, the EU is better known and is regarded as a political actor.  I am very pleased with this," said the Ambassador, adding that during the same period, Azerbaijan has become better known in Europe, as he brought lots of VIP visits to Azerbaijan (Presidents Barroso, Van Rompuy and Buzek, High Representative Ashton, Vice-Presidents Kallas and Kroes, Commissioners Oettinger and Füle, etc).

With regard to practical results achieved during the 4 years, the Ambassador gave some concrete examples; notably the agreement on facilitation of the visa regime and the readmission agreement. "Negotiations on this issue have lasted one and a half years, and we look forward to signing the document at the summit in Vilnius. I am happy particularly since the agreement on simplification of the visa regime will concern all people and all citizens of Azerbaijan. It will be much easier to obtain visas and create additional opportunities for citizens of all categories to travel to Europe. This is a strong instrument to get Azerbaijan and the EU closer, to get to know each other better” said Kobia.

There are also important achievements in the field of energy that will enable a physical link between Azerbaijan and Europe. This will benefit both parties, and should benefit the population overall in increasing living standards.

Another achievement during this period is the substantial increase in support and funding of civil society in Azerbaijan. "During my time in Baku, funding has reached 16 million € in financing. Also funding has become annual instead of every two years, and has doubled. Thus, the EU is now by far the largest international donor to civil society in Azerbaijan.  By the end of the year, there will be around 60 different grants in favor of civil society, of which there are many projects in the field of democracy and human rights, elections, etc.  Our projects are not limited to Baku, but cover almost the whole country. I'm glad I was able to achieve this, however more can be done; we will continue this support because civil society is an important asset to any country willing to mobilize all its human resources to further develop in an inclusive way" said the Ambassador.

Referring to what he wanted to achieve, Kobia said that he would have liked to see more progress between Azerbaijan and Armenia on the Nagorno-Karabakh. This is a painful situation, and progress needs to be made swiftly. 

Also, he said that he would have wished to be more successful in supporting Azerbaijan towards greater pluralism, human rights and the rule of law in Azerbaijan on the basis of the international and legally-binding commitments that bind Azerbaijan and the EU’s (Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, Action plan, Eastern Partnership…).

"The EU has always been transparent and clear. Brussels has repeatedly expressed its position on all these issues, publicly, through statements, annual Progress Reports, declarations and interviews. There is no hidden agenda with the EU, what you see is what you get. These statements were made by the EU and our partners. The partners all expressed concerns about some developments that we did not see as positive, and we will continue to work to support Azerbaijan to improve the situation in these areas. But this public side is only the tip of the iceberg. Diplomacy is also about closed-door meetings, and the work that the EU and member States have done on these issues with Azerbaijan cannot be seen by the people", he said.

Q: How was the relationship between Roland Kobia and the Azerbaijani authorities in those four years? All will remember statements of Ali Hasanov, who publicly stated that he does not care for the Eastern Partnership program and that Azerbaijan is not interested in the European Union at all and does not want to join it.

How does the European Union operate in Baku against such claims and whether we should believe authorities' statements of intent to build partnerships with the European Union?

In answering this question, the Ambassador said in his time here, he had to hear a lot of statements regarding the EU, some of them were published and quoted only partially or outside their context. Very often he heard from one and the same person quite opposite opinions, and the case mentioned is no exception. Just recently, the Presidential Administration made several statements confirming that Azerbaijan has a good relationship with the EU and that Baku will endeavor to strengthen it, said Kobia.

"Statements are normal politics, and I do not like to personalize things, I rather look at the institutions from which statements come. I perceive such statements in the context of the moment or of the situation in which they were made. At the same time, we have heard quite a lot of positive reviews from members of civil society, from businesses, from the media, professors, students, etc. I attach a lot of importance on this feedback from non state actors as well" said the diplomat. He also noted that while in Azerbaijan, he heard statements expressing dissatisfaction from Baku not only against the EU, but against virtually most of the partners and neighbors of Azerbaijan. 

"The EU has a positive agenda in Azerbaijan. We are here to be constructive, to support and defend values. This is not a hidden agenda as it is public, and it is no double standards as we do it with all countries that have taken international, legally-binding commitments. We have the same expectations and we adopt the same attitude with our closest Western partners, and even internally in the EU. What we wish from Azerbaijan is merely implementing commitments taken with the EU, but also with the United Nations (the Charter of UN is based on values), the OSCE, the Council of Europe, etc. We have never asked from anyone to do anything more than the commitment that had been freely and independently taken. So, the EU is conducting a logical and coherent policy on this basis," he said. The position of Brussels is clear and has been expressed, including in its detailed annual report (Progress Report), which refers to the need for improvement in several areas. This document is transparent and publicly accessible to all.

"In all of this, we see active cooperation with Azerbaijan in the human rights and democracy area, political, economic, and other fields, which was not so 5 years ago. I am happy about the progress in many other areas of cooperation. The EU works with the whole society of Azerbaijan. It gives me a reason to say that a convergence is gradually coming, and the cooperation will bring real results with time. Indeed, Azerbaijan knows that, contrary to other actors, the EU respects the sovereignty and independence of its partners, and even wants to consolidate it. We want to build a relationship between equals. But the rule of law and the ensuing legal certainty is important to enable a clear vision of the future: if the partners take commitments, they must stick to the rules of the game and implement them, something which also applies to the European Union itself.

Q: So what could you say about Azerbaijan fulfilling its commitments to democracy and human rights, for example on the persecution of political opponents? Specifically, we are talking about Ilgar Mammadov, NIDA activists and others.

The EU follows all cases which we are made aware of. Some are more prominent, others less, but freedoms are universal and should benefit to all. On Ilgar Mammadov’s case, this is somehow an emblematic case as Mammadov is a political activist who wants to use his civil rights to run for the Presidential elections. I can think of numerous statements –and silent diplomacy- by EU leaders, but also from other important countries and international organizations. We have all made our position crystal-clear. But we do not forget about the other cases. We have also visited others in jail or we have made demarches. "I was the only Ambassador accredited in Azerbaijan who visited Ilgar Mammadov in pre-trial detention. I do not see what could be a stronger political signal. I also give credit to the authorities for allowing me to meet the detainee," said Kobia.

"I am delighted that Ilgar Mammedov could be registered as a candidate now. This is a sign of good will by the authorities, and he should be given the possibility to campaign now. It remains that the international community, and myself, do not fully understand the basis of the charges against him. Maybe because there is not enough clarity and transparency from the judiciary, in spite of the fact that I went myself to the Court to try to get information, but I was denied entry. I do not see why his detention is extended again and again, and why the investigation has not yet succeeded in coming up with a detailed picture of the case after over 6 months. We are concerned about what is happening. And this saddens me because it has a negative impact on the international image of Azerbaijan" said the diplomat.

Q: How could you assess the views of a number of western and local human rights organizations that the West signed a deal with Azerbaijan and forgot about democracy for the sake of oil? 

"I absolutely do not agree with this assessment and such an opinion. What kind of 'deal' do you have in mind? In the last 4 years we have made dozens of statements expressing our concerns: is that logical is we wanted to make a deal only for an energy agenda?" Talks on the fact that the EU has sacrificed democratic requirements for the sake of energy interests are completely unfounded and hastily stated. Democratic values ​​and human rights are always on the agenda of our meetings and talks between Baku and Brussels. Just as energy and many other areas are. We have a wide agenda with Azerbaijan, and we need to talk about all issues.

"Those who criticize us should remember that we are diplomats, not human rights activists, so we must work with the whole spectrum - government, civil society, media, etc; and we have to respect the remits of our mandate as diplomats. The work of diplomats is different from human rights defenders, each one has its role, often complementary, and things should not be mixed up".

Q: What will the EU wait for from the upcoming presidential elections in Azerbaijan, the diplomat said the EU is looking forward to free, fair and transparent elections. Azerbaijan has not fulfilled all the recommendations to improve the electoral system proposed by the ODIHR.

"The upcoming elections are particularly important for three reasons. First, it is in the interest of Azerbaijan itself. Azerbaijan should be exemplary because it now has an even greater responsibility today as it sits as a non permanent member of the UN Security Council and must therefore defend the UN Charter that is based on universal values. In the same vein, next year Azerbaijan will chair the Council of Europe, and then must show it is ready for that important position. We hope that the rest of the recommendations made by ODHIR will also be adopted and implemented in practice ahead of elections. Secondly, over the last years, Azerbaijan has leaded an active policy of increasing its international profile and exposure. This means also that the spotlights are on Azerbaijan, through international media, and elections will be scrutinized internationally. Finally, it is as I said already, about organizing elections in accordance with the international commitments and standards freely taken with several international partners, nothing more" said Kobia.

"On another related issue, we have often invited the authorities to conduct a dialogue with civil society and political opponents. There was one initiative by the Presidential Administration last year, this was appreciated by many, but remained a one-shot event. The dialogue should be regular and open to exchanging diverging views. You also need to liberalize, not to tighten legislation, e.g. the law on defamation, which extends ​​punishment to the Internet. The same goes for the tightening of the law on NGOs. In EU's view, these legislations should be reviewed and mitigated notably on the basis of the agenda of approximation of legislations the EU has with Azerbaijan. I would like to mention the situation in Nakhchivan, which should not be forgotten, and where human rights and democracy are in need of more support and care.

To sum up, I want to note that Azerbaijan is a proud and ambitious country that has the potential and means to tackle all the issues above. Not because others wish it, but because it is in Azerbaijan's own long-term interest. There is also need to invest more in human capital - education, health, and social protection. Bridges, beautiful buildings and roads are important to develop, but human capital is key. Young brilliant Azerbaijanis should have the opportunity to give their energy, enthusiasm and competence to their country in being able to maximize opportunities, like setting up businesses without being constrained by monopolists. Then there would be no brain drain, and all Azerbaijanis would contribute and benefit from the economic development of the country. In this sense, it is important that the economy be more liberalized and tackle corruption and economic monopolies, which prevent WTO accession and signing free-trade agreements with the EU. This could bolster Azerbaijan's development even further, and thus enrich the whole nation in a sustainable and inclusive way." -0-