"If they are so transparent, why haven’t they submitted a declaration of income and property yet?"

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Question: Gubad bey, recently the Pandora documents, which are in the spotlight of the whole world, were spread. The documents, which contain the names of more than 30 world leaders, revealed the hidden wealth of these people. Could there be any other motive behind the spread of such information? Because there is a possibility that the dissemination of such documents serves more purposes than the fight against corruption.

Answer: Corruption poses a threat to international and national security. Major corruption cases are usually associated with authoritarian regimes and political leaders. In this case, it is difficult and risky to expose these cases within the country. Therefore, it is very important and significant work to confirm the facts of political corruption, which are revealed as a result of the joint efforts of investigative journalists, with documents. I believe that in the first place, this Pandora document can be evaluated in that way. It can be added to what has been said that corrupt people are also exposed so that elected leaders, civil societies, and corporations recognize them and stay away from them. It is also a message to the people of the countries where corrupt politicians live, a demonstration of solidarity with them. Therefore, I do not see any prejudice against any politician named in the Pandora documents. I appreciate the fact that such research is conducted regularly and made available to the public in order to make them regret their actions and discourage others from doing so.

Question: There have been similar documents before. Prior to the Pandora documents, similar Panama documents were circulated in 2016. As it is now, there was information about the secret assets of the leaders and individuals of many countries, including the ruling family. Has anything changed in the field of corruption after that information? For example, has there been a downward trend in the world and in the country?

Answer: Since the Panama and Paradise documents were released, many countries have raised the standards of transparency and accountability in their national legislation and joined international initiatives to demonstrate their commitment to open government and electronic government principles. For example, the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative (EITI) has made property ownership a mandatory norm for member states since last year. The EITI decision was made in 2016, and 2017-2020 was declared a transition period for member states. Azerbaijan left the EITI in 2017 for one reason or another. The European Union has increased its requirements for transparency and accountability of corporations for member states. Legislation has also been improved in some countries, the United States and the United Kingdom, to address the root causes and motives of corruption and to tighten requirements for the inflow and laundering of dirty money.

After the publication of such documents, the financial and property status of political leaders has received more attention. P They are under increasing pressure to declare their income.

Of course, all this reduces the global scale of corruption and limits its level.

Question: This time the documents contain information about the property of the President of Azerbaijan worth $ 700 million. But it seems that the impact of this information on public opinion is not so great. It is as if people have heard such information so much that they simply accept the existence of such information. As if it should have been so. Where does this come from?

Answer: Such a reaction of the population was expected. Since in Azerbaijan, as in other post-Soviet countries, it is not possible to build an open society, the attitude of the population to the issue with a post-Soviet mentality prevails. In the 30 years since the restoration of independence, the necessary reforms in governance have not been carried out in Azerbaijan to get rid of our totalitarian past, and the population is again inclined to rule by the administrative-command method. The majority of the people think in Soviet terms so that the budget and the Oil Fund do not belong to them. They believe that everything belongs to the state - oil, gas, oil fund, and budget. They do not accept the funds there as public funds, do not consider the state as its own, as in the Soviet era, and do not lay claim to it.

Another reason for this is the lack of consumer society in the country. The government that fills the budget with oil money does not depend on the consumer and the taxpayer. Therefore, it does not reckon with them. Due to the small contribution of taxpayers and consumers to the formation of the budget, they do not keep track of their money but simply consider their work done by paying taxes.

Finally, the last reason is the spread of corruption in the country and the fact that it has become common. There are very few people in Azerbaijan who have jobs and positions but are not rife with corruption. Most people working in public administration, health care, and education have a "taste" of corruption. Some of them were forced into this filth by forming a sense of social justification with the idea that "you cannot make a living without bribes" because of their low wages, while others worked as shareholders in a corrupt network as steps in a corruption pyramid. That is why the majority of those who are corrupt or benefit from the corruption money are tolerant of this situation.

Question: Do you think we will see the situation change again before the next offshore scandal, for example, five years later?

Answer: The situation is changing rapidly, 20-30 years ago, it was much easier to launder, clean, and hide the corruption money. Now everything is digitalized, the share of non-cash transactions is growing, access to information is expanding, and new methods and tools are emerging for the press, investigators, and researchers to detect corruption. Therefore, in 5 years, corruption will be lower than now; however, it will not be completely eliminated.

Question: How to get out of this situation? Maybe through the legalization of capitals? Or what else?

Answer: The first step in the fight against corruption in Azerbaijan should be the publication of a Declaration of Income and Property by all middle and senior government officials, including the President, Vice-President, Speaker of Parliament, Prime Minister, ministers, heads of state committees, members of the Milli Majlis, heads of local executive authorities, prosecutors, judges, law enforcement services, and special services. At the same time, “Competition Code”, “Budget Code”, “Law on Conflict of Interest”, “Law on Protection of Informant”, “Law on Public Financial Control”, “Law on Disclosure of Property Ownership” must be adopted, prohibitions on the disclosure of information on property ownership and company payments must be removed from the Law on Trade Secrets, and existing laws must be subject to anti-corruption expertise. The dependence of the judiciary on the executive and other authorities must be eliminated, an independent Central Bank must be established, barriers to a free press and civil society must be removed, and transparency, accountability, and access to information must be increased.

In the current political context, capital amnesty cannot be an effective tool.

Question: How do you assess Ilham Aliyev's answer to the journalist's question about the Pandora documents in an interview with the Italian newspaper La Repubblica?

Answer: Before becoming president, Ilham Aliyev had been Prime Minister, Vice President of SOCAR, a member of the Milli Majlis since 1995, and the son of the President before that. Article 85 of the Constitution of the Republic of Azerbaijan prohibits a member of the Milli Majlis from engaging in entrepreneurial and commercial activities. However, Ilham Aliyev says, “I have been President for eighteen years. Before that, I used to be an entrepreneur, I was engaged in business. My biography is also known. I had been a successful entrepreneur. When I was elected president, I was not a poor person. After becoming president, I stopped engaging in business and transferred the business to my family." If Ilham Aliyev was so rich before he became president, why didn’t he support the people in the tent camps when they were in need of humanitarian aid from Iran for years? Why didn’t he build a house for a refugee or IDP? Did he finance the education of a talented Azerbaijani youth abroad? Which of the oligarchs, who have become rich under Ilham Aliyev’s government, made those things happen? None of them had the business acumen or the thought of etatism!

During Ilham Aliyev's rule, all high-ranking officials became extremely rich by selling Azerbaijan's wealth, looting the budget, amassing capital through corruption, investing in the business of their children and partners abroad, investing their income in bank deposits, securities, and property markets, and now they are still increasing their wealth. The source of their wealth is the government because they have always seen positions as a source of income, so they clung to their seats.

Ilham Aliyev also said, "I transferred all my business to my children. They make efforts and continue their business. They mainly have investments in Azerbaijan. They have investments outside Azerbaijan. All their business activities are transparent and audited at the international level, and no one can claim that something is wrong here." Let them make a statement and let’s see what businesses the Aliyev family has in Azerbaijan and abroad. Why should we read all this from the Panama, Paradise, Pandora documents? If they are so transparent, why haven’t they submitted a declaration of income and property so far?

Finally, I would like to say that after this statement, if you ask the minister or the chief executive where such amount of their money comes from, they will say, “I was not poor when I was appointed a minister or chief executive, I had a successful business, and then I handed it over to my family members.” This means that Ilham Aliyev's statement will serve to promote corruption in Azerbaijan.

Kamran Mahmudov