2020: Human rights in the context of a pandemic and war

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- Intigam bey, how was 2020 remembered in the country in terms of human rights? How would you assess last year in terms of human rights?

- In the field of human rights, there were no significant innovations for the better last year. Despite the release of some political prisoners, the acquittal of two politicians by the Plenum of the Supreme Court on the basis of the decision of the European Court, and similar things that made us smile, in fact, the situation remains stable and difficult. It is no coincidence that we continue to be among the countries with the highest human rights violations in the reports of influential international organizations.

- On January 30 last year, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe adopted a Resolution on Reported Cases of Political Prisoners in Azerbaijan. The resolution called for a "solution to the problem of political prisoners once and for all ". Has this issue been resolved in 2020? Have there been any positive changes in this direction?

- There are many similarities between this resolution of the Council of Europe on political prisoners (including numerous similar documents of other international organizations) and the fate of the resolutions on the occupied territories of Azerbaijan, which are often named. The latter were ignored by the Armenian government, and they did not even seem to care about it. It was explained to them with artillery, guns, and drones. It is also difficult to intimidate our government with a resolution. You need to give them a dose of their oün medicine. No, I'm not a big fan of guns. It has long been known that the Council of Europe and similar institutions do not have those miracles. There is only one force that can explain this to the government, it is the people, and the way is elections. Still, that prospect looks bleak. But it does not mean that we do not have such a chance. We are entering a very difficult period but there are also bright things. We need to work harder and believe that success is inevitable.

The solution to the problem of political prisoners depends on the formation of a political system based on freedom, democracy, and pluralism, free media, fair elections, education without bribes, a monopoly-free economy, and independent courts. Consistent efforts must be made to establish them. This is not an easy task. In fact, there is a war in this area too. The successes we will achieve there are no less important than those achieved in the Karabakh War.

- This year was also remembered as a year of the pandemic. How do you assess the situation of human rights and freedoms in Azerbaijan during the tightened special quarantine regime?

- I think I have answered this question. As a matter of fact, the human rights situation was dire without the pandemic too. There have been both normal restrictions imposed during the pandemic and restrictions which caused rightful protests. The bad ones are those related to the bad intentions of the government. Deteriorating economic and social conditions may re-activate street protests (balconies, subways, etc.). Therefore, the easiest way is to lock people in their own apartment and put a policeman with a baton at the door (with unimaginable fines). But the pandemic is not eternal, nor are the resources and patience of the people.

- During the special quarantine period, the police's harsh treatment of citizens caused protests. After that, several police officers were punished. Has there been any change in police-citizen relations since this incident? In general, how was the relationship between law enforcement agencies and citizens remembered this year?

- In the current situation, the police are the slapper of the government. The passion for slapping and kicking is at the heart of power structures. There is no country in the world where there is no police violence. But there are countries in the world where, if someone is slapped innocently, it is not because of the system but mainly because of the frenzy at the level of individuals (both high-ranking and low-ranking). In our country, police arbitrariness is a requirement of an authoritarian system of government. Those in charge of that system can give or not give specific instructions. There is no need for first-person’s instructions to disperse rallies, pickets, and marches of the opposition (I do not mean only opposition political parties). They can intervene more when there is a need for permission. In other cases, they have the presumption to disperse the rally, detain, and beat. Or it is also a requirement of the system to “give a lesson” to the person who throws garbage at the police. As long as this system persists, the police will continue to beat and torture people, the prosecutor will prosecute innocent people, the education system will continue to cripple hundreds of thousands spiritually, and the health system will continue to cripple hundreds of thousands physically. That is, there is no bad (or very bad) police, there is a bad system. Just as there is no “king who is good but whose surroundings are bad”.

- This year, dialogues were held with political parties, as well as NGOs. Many of them were registered. Does all this mean a change in the government's attitude towards the opposition? At the same time, the activities of some human rights organizations were stagnant. Could all this have anything to do with the ongoing dialogue?

- The government's attitude to the opposition will not change. When we say opposition, we usually mean political parties but, in fact, this is a broader concept. There is also opposition in the essence of journalism, advocacy, NGOs, literature, culture - I can extend the list.

Among the ones we call the opposition, including political parties, the attitude towards those who will start to obey what the government says will be different. The rewards can be varied. Some may be given a deputy's seat, another may be given a decent amount of money (also in the form of compensation), a third may be given an office, a fourth may be registered, and a fifth may be given pocket money. Some may not be given anything; they may simply be invited to a play called "dialogue" with a fiftieth-rank person or persons of the Presidential Administration (I'm not joking out of respect for those who attend) and may be happy about it. I do not deny that there are people who go to those meetings with good intentions. But if they are not naive (or do not put themselves in this position), they must understand that the government has no intention of holding free elections, giving independence to the courts and the media, ensuring freedom of assembly, or removing the monopoly in the economy. It is as clear as day that the government will not agree to this. If this happens, the system will collapse and power will be lost. The rulers of the country do not intend to relinquish power, because they consider this country their private property.

As for stagnation: it has nothing to do with what is called dialogue. The reason for the stagnation is different: there are no human rights organizations left in the country. The organization must have an office, an account, finances, employees, and contacts. All of this has been systematically and deliberately destroyed. Their numbers are so few that one can count them on the fingers of one hand, and they have to deal with everything. The forces are incomparably unequal. That's why when you say "human rights organizations", it seems very big. The same can be said about political parties, media, and other civil society organizations. In fact, with such limited resources and great risk, if those people do not stop their efforts for a moment, if they continue to bear that heavy burden, we will have to tell them just "thank you".

- Last year, a large number of people were expelled from the Bar. In general, how do you assess the situation with advocacy?

- Increase in the number of advocates and young people in this area is a good sign. The revival of the organization is obvious: more events are organized, the organization is opened to the international community, the website is working, there is more information; Previously, they did not provide information about advocates, which was said to be an advocate’s secret, now that information can be found on the website (look what we are grateful for!). But the essence of advocacy is independence. The first and foremost condition of independence is independence from the government. Without it, the many positive things whether we said or not will be more decorative changes.

There is a need to increase the number of members of the Bar Association. But if advocacy does not change in essence, if it does not get out of the control of the government, if authoritarian rule within the organization continues, there is no point in expanding its composition. Just as training the army of meek political parties, media, NGOs, poets and writers, etc., who are looking for a lap, by giving them housing, titles, awards, positions, money, there will be no threat to the government from the association of advocates fed in the same way. What is the harm of having a large number of so-called advocates if they keep their mouths shut and support the government?!

Reform must contain not only the form but also and more the essence. What kind of reform and independence can we talk about in the institution that expelled an advocate for publicizing the fact of torture of his client, protesting against the arbitrariness of the judiciary, law enforcement, and penitentiary system?! Advocates should be concerned about this situation.

As I mentioned above, the essence of advocacy also includes the opposition. The advocate is also engaged in opposition activities, protecting the rights of those whose houses were demolished, whose election rights were violated, who were tortured, illegally detained, and beaten at rallies, and, if appropriate, publicizing them. If you do not control the area where these people are concentrated, it can turn into a serious headache. The government will never want to let go of the rope of the Bar Association. In this sense, it was never in its plan to see this institution independent. What happens in advocacy stems from system problems, the change of which depends on the disassembly of the system. The more lawyers understand the rottenness of this system and work hard to change it, the more the country will change, and so will the organization they are a member of.

- How do you assess the human rights situation in Azerbaijan during the war? In a society focusing on the war, human rights have receded into the background. Were there any violations during that period that we did not notice?

- All wars have human rights receded into the background. For an authoritarian government, this is also a good opportunity to neutralize what is left. You don't even need your own baton to shut the mouths of the speakers. In such cases, it is not only the patriotic crowd that plays the role of the baton. We have seen many oppositionists, opposition public figures, journalists, human rights defenders, and activists who have been presented as peace activists for years, who have become participants in the lynching process by presenting any criticism of the government as a betrayal of national interests and statehood.

Even war should not deprive such people of their right to freedom of expression, to question and criticize the government's foreign and domestic policies, as well as its military actions. It is understandable when those who express questions and criticize are lynched by the government and its supporters; however, it is difficult to understand when a political prisoner, a well-known human rights defender, a journalist, an expert on freedom of expression do it by saying "shut up, let the war end, then talk!". Those who were in the opposition and supported the Supreme Commander-in-Chief at all stages of the war, praised and congratulated him, had a share in the events that took place at that time and later and rightly caused dissatisfaction and even anger.

The government would like human rights in this country to be “cursed” once and for all. But the potential of the society to protest against this has not been exhausted, and a different youth is growing up. They will be the target, in other words, the arrests will continue, there will be repressions, there will be a politician whose head will be cracked open, there will be an imprisoned journalist, there will be a lawyer expelled from the Bar, and there will be someone whose photos will be spread from his/her bed. But all this will not prevent society from moving towards the light.