Philip Ekozyants: Memory of Armenians and Azerbaijanis - Chance for Salvation

(Turan IA interview with a Ukrainian musician and actor of the Armenian origin about the problems in relations between the two nations and the historical processes in the region).

Question: I would like to take a little bit away from the traditional approach to the subject of the Karabakh conflict, when discussing the question: who is to blame?

The idea to talk with you appeared after reading your appeal to President Erdogan. You said that Turks and Armenians have much in common, and they have had a quarrel organized artificially by external forces.

With the same position we want to ask a question about the relationship between Armenians and Azerbaijanis, which for hundreds of years lived in peace. Bloody clashes began in the early 20th century, which peaked at the end of the 80s. What is the cause and whether it was again an external force?

A: Today we have the opportunity to observe firsthand how the known story collapses and a new one appears in its place. I will not evaluate this new story here. But I will note one thing: the new and the old story is written by people, and people are not perfect. Their motives other than the desire to find the truth, often include ambitions and political preferences, and betrayal, and even banal mistakes, miscalculations and errors. The historical study of law is a very difficult and thankless job. And most likely it is impossible.

Yes, I am convinced that the people who call themselves Turkish, Armenian and Azerbaijani today lived in peace and harmony for hundreds of years. What occurred at the beginning of the 20th century we do not know. But there are many facts indicating that external forces intervened in our peaceful life and destroyed it. They did it through agents among our own people, and to put it simply, through traitors. Perhaps among the traitors are those who do not know what they do. But this does not change the terrible result of their activities. Suffice it to say that the printing press, which printed books and pamphlets, inciting ethnic strife in the Great Ottoman Empire, were in Paris, and the materials often initially came out in French and then were translated into Turkish and Armenian, and were thrown into the territory of the empire. Their authors – both Turkish and Armenian - resided there permanently. In the near future I am going to post on the Internet more and more materials about these events, which date from the mid 19th century. There are facts - many facts, including Armenian masons - perhaps the main culprit of the Armenian tragedy of the early 20th century.

As an example of the participation of external forces and their role in conflicts I want to give an example of Ukraine, whose citizen I am.

Today, the gap between the Ukrainians and the Russians is artificially deepened and special role is played by the media. If you look at who owns the media, you will find that many of them are not citizens of Ukraine.

Ukrainian people through the media are told that the Ukrainian people had no common history with the Russian people, which is worth remembering and being proud of; that the Ukrainians, but not Russians, are the legitimate heirs of Kievan Rus; that the Russians are an army of drunken people mixed with the Tatars and Mongols. Although - regardless of the significance of past events - Ukrainians and Russians are so close ethnically that many, not without reason, considered them one nation. But if this goes on, in a hundred or two hundred years we will deal with two completely different peoples, hostile to each other.

Drawing an analogy with our question, ask yourself who and where wrote and continues to write the history of Turks, Armenians and Azerbaijanis. From where did and do we take basic information of our common history?

The forces that exploit the national idea and nationalism look at it as a business. Once extracting income and resources, these forces begin to get rid of the Nazis, with whose hands they committed a coup and seized power. These forces are international, but act as a unified nation, which has its purely mercantile interests.

This pattern is repeated every time and everywhere, and the Armenian-Turkish and Armenian-Azerbaijani conflicts are not exceptions, but rather examples.

In answer to your direct question, I will say the following:

I am convinced that the conflicts between Turks and Armenians, Armenians and Azerbaijanis are instigated and supported by external forces. And since we - Turks, Armenians and Azerbaijanis – could not figure out which way the wind was blowing, and drew weapons against each other, talking about peace is very, very difficult. It is difficult, but it's not too late! Spilled blood lies between the two nations, but the only bridge over the abyss can be understanding of the fact that these nations – either Azerbaijanis or Armenians or Turks - were not the instigators of this war.

Here is something you need to work - historians and analysts, and lawyers, and politicians, and most importantly - the media. Thank God, still alive are those who remember how friendly, multinational and light Baku was 30-40 years ago. These people and their memory are our common and real chance. Alas, in the relations between Turks and Armenians this chance does not exist. Time has taken the people and information on the overall peaceful and constructive past is thoroughly erased from the memory of the two peoples.

Question: There is an opinion expressed by the ex-president of Armenia Kocharian that Armenians and Azerbaijanis are not compatible genetically. What do you think about it? How does this statement fit with the long history of living together, a large number of mixed marriages, common traditions and so forth?

Answer: This is a stupid and irresponsible statement. There is nothing to say. I note only that Kocharian is just a clear representative of the external forces in Armenia, and his rhetoric is consistent with his their objectives.

Question: What, in your opinion, is the role of the intelligentsia of the two peoples in the normalization of their relations? Is it possible, in principle, and what should be done?

Answer: The role of Armenian and Azeri intellectuals lies in the historic growing up of our peoples. They need to stop wasting time on writing fables of genetic incompatibility, on trolling each other, the angry voices of cozy and safe television studios spoken to excited crowds. The courage of an intellectual is daring to say what a militant crowd does not want to hear. The purpose of the intelligentsia, in my opinion, is peace, goodwill and harmony in society. But not war, hatred or destruction!

Question: History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood, but let's assume for a moment that there was no Karabakh conflict: how would it impact on the state of Armenia's economy and the welfare of its people? How would be the relationship between Armenia and Turkey?

Answer: I believe the Karabakh conflict did not start in the late 20th century. Its roots are in the tragedy of the two great empires - the Russian and the Ottoman. Karabakh is just one of the boils on the body of a huge and seriously ill organism. And of course, without this conflict, today we would have the most flourishing and multinational Baku, loved and admired in the Soviet Union, and the Azerbaijanis, Armenians and Russians, who lived there, or those who had the good fortune to stay there for a time long enough to be filled with its atmosphere.

Question: Some historians believe that "the Armenian psychology" or "genocidal syndrome" is the most serious obstacle to their reconciliation with the Turks. What should be done to the Armenian society to overcome this? How do you assess Erdogan's famous appeal to Armenians on the eve of the 100th anniversary of the events of 1915 with a call for reconciliation?

Answer: There was a terrible event in the history of Armenian people. It is a fact. And yes, for the Armenians, this fact is incredible, at times unbearable psychological burden. It is necessary to understand. My grandfather Melkisedek from Erzurum lost nearly 20 closest relatives and was rescued by a neighbor Turk. My grandfather never in my life said that Armenians were killed by Turks. He said that it was done by soldiers. He never called the Turkish people enemy. He said that neighbors, the Turks, were as close to Armenians, as their blood relatives. This is a fact for me!

There is definitely our fault that the reconciliation of our people is so hopelessly delayed.

Firstly, we, Armenians, were quick to call those responsible for this tragedy. In fact, the perpetrators have yet to be named. And for me it is absolutely clear that we cannot blame the Turkish people. It would be absurd, just because it's not true. Similarly, the entire Ukrainian people are not guilty of the murder of Russians in Donbas. Just as the Jewish people are not to blame for the usurpation of power in Ukraine. Just as the entire German people are not guilty of Nazi crimes.

Second, not knowing the whole truth, without naming the ideologists of the destruction of the population in the eastern provinces of the Ottoman Empire (namely, they are the main culprits of the tragedy!), we thus want the whole world to accept our point of view. You cannot do it this way. First, we need to install the entire picture of the crime. And for this it is necessary to study the archives - not only Armenian, but also Turkish, and Russian, and English, and, eventually, the US. At a minimum, you must cooperate with those who want it, and even insist on it, as, for example, does the President of Turkey. Erdogan’s appeal is a normal human message to people who have experienced a terrible tragedy.

Third, we Armenians do not want to notice the obvious. US, UK and Israel, for some reason, do not want to recognize the genocide officially. While all are well aware that these countries rule a greater part of the Western world, if not the entire Western world. In the sphere of their absolute influence are powerful Western media that use the whole arsenal of lies, distortions and manipulations, and jam on the vine any of our attempt to start normal and frank dialogue. I think they are just afraid of the investigation of the Armenian tragedy. For strings of this terrible detective lead overseas, and to the UK, and to the ideologists of creating the state of Israel. But that is another story. In the meantime, all the media of Western style in Armenia are aimed at demonizing the Turkish people. Their goal is the same: not to let us be united in the search for truth. Because finding the truth in the past, we will inevitably come together or, if you wish, reunite in the present. And then it will be impossible to drive us from overseas or from European banks.

The ones who pulled down the great empires of the 19th century - the Russian and the Ottoman, are, most likely, the customers and executors of the mass murder of the population of the Ottoman Empire. And these were not Turkish, not Armenian, not Russian or Azerbaijani peoples. For us all it was not profitable, not necessary, for all of us it was a terrible tragedy, it was a nightmare. And we continue to live in it because we do not know the truth about the real criminals.    -0-

Philip Ekozyants (Melkisedek) was born in Kharkov in 1964. He is a grandson of a refugee from Erzurum.

By training he is an actor. Since 1993, he has worked in Ukraine as producer in radio and television broadcasting. He is a composer, a poet and a singer.

Since 2003, he has been engaged in historical research.