Russia in Armenia is not a savior, but a rescuer is Georgy Vanyan

Question: Many people have read your appeal to President I. Aliyev and Prime Minister N. Pashinyan, where you propose to act more actively to reconcile the two peoples, to open the borders so that Azerbaijanis and Armenians can visit the neighboring country. Do you think the time has come to open the borders? Are the peoples ready for this?

Answer:  It is not natural for the peoples to live in isolation. Some individual can do what they want: do not communicate, do not go to other countries, and do not talk. This is their freedom and no one can force them. The unpreparedness of the peoples is a very unfortunate expression coined by the Minsk group recently. We do not suppose, but we know for sure, that this group did nothing good. At the cost of incredible sacrifices, our peoples were able to discover this "secret" not only for themselves, but also for the whole world.

The first sentence of Clause 9 of the tripartite document says, "All economic and transport links in the region will be unblocked." However, the terms regarding the implementation have not been specified. If the three signatories meant by this only the zone of influence of the border service of the FSB, then the wording is very unfortunate. If to read it as it is, then the region should be understood as the countries they govern.

Question: There is an interesting attitude towards Pashinyan in the two countries. Most of the people of Armenia call him a traitor. People in Azerbaijan say, let him rule, he suits us, after him another hawk as Kocharyan may come. How do you assess Pashinyan in line with your peacekeeping tasks?

Answer:  If Kocharyan is a hawk, then Pashinyan is the same hawk. There is no formalized peace party in Armenia, and there never will be. Doves and hawks confront each other only in independent and democratic countries. Although, with the easy hand of Levon Ter-Petrosyan, a certain part of our leaders appropriated this false interpretation of the Armenian reality. Thoughtful analytical words about peace and war, as well as bazaar information campaigns, only cover up the clan struggle for power, or at least the preservation of existing personal wealth. It does not matter if Pashinyan is in power, whether one of the former returns, or someone else, this does not affect the peacekeeping tasks.

Question:  In your address, you propose to negotiate between President Aliyev and Prime Minister Pashinyan in Armenia and Azerbaijan. Not in Russia. Why not Russia? Most Armenians call Russia their savior. Do you think otherwise?

Answer:  I regard the Russian Federation as a rescuer during this period. Not a savior, but a rescuer. Moreover, I am sure that the majority of Armenians, including those who consider themselves "hawks", agree with me. However, like any foreign rescuers, they came to clean up the consequences of the disaster that had already happened. Like any adequate person, I am grateful to the peacekeepers in this case. They became the guarantors of the search for the bodies of the victims; they are engaged in mine clearance, risking their lives.

The bloodshed was stopped, thanks to the fact that a military contingent from the Russian Federation arrived in the conflict zone. How did it happen? Believe that every Armenian has his own unique answer to this question. Those who sincerely rant about the salutary patronage of the Russian state and dream of casting their vote in a referendum in favor of Armenia’s joining the Russian Federation are marginalized and utopians. I advise the rest to put the difference between the meanings “rescuer” and “savior” on the public field (fortunately, there are both these words in Armenian) and then everything will fall into place.

You mentioned such a thing as a peacekeeping task. Therefore, the transfer of working meetings and all events with participation of Armenians and Azerbaijanis to the territory of our countries is one of the peacekeeping tasks. In order to resolve the Karabakh issue, everyone, without exception, needs to meet in Baku and Yerevan. We need to change the culture. We live in the 21st century; everything is based on culture in the broadest sense of the word.

Question:  I have watched the video interview of the American professor Arman Grigoryan with our journalist. Grigoryan says that after the defeat in Armenia, the times have come when one can speak and offer peace with Azerbaijan. When Sargsyan was in power, you were repressed for such   conversations and appeals. What times have come in Armenia? Do not they invite you to cooperate to establish better relations with Azerbaijanis?

Answer: - A certain thaw has come in post-war Armenia, and this is explained by the shock that people, all people have gone through. The authorities always know when to loosen their grip. However, the hate propaganda machine continues to work, and this is very disturbing.

Nobody invited me to cooperate, and I have no idea what this cooperation could be. But I already cooperate and I do what I can. To establish relations with Azerbaijanis, it is enough to show the traits of a decent person, to be interested in an interlocutor, to be able to listen. We have a self-preservation mechanism inside each of us, and when we face the manifestation of ethnic, religious or other similar type of hatred, and we do not have a paid task to make a provocation at that moment, we find a way to smooth things over and continue the dialogue. Such wonderful techniques are used by Armenians and Azerbaijanis all over the world, from ancient times to today. In this way, they ensure their safety and the safety of the interlocutor, and partner.

As for the repressions, it was not me who was actually repressed, but all those who participated in the projects that I led; a non-governmental organization was repressed.

I think many Azerbaijanis, especially in the recent period, were able to figure out where the ears of the Armenian agitprop are growing. After all, it was enough to listen to how the so-called “pro-Armenian Kremlin propagandists” commented on the war; it is enough to look at the style of these underground employees of the ideological department of the KGB of the USSR, who are zealous on TV channels and especially on YouTube. It is easy to understand that they are still in force and will remain in force as long as the Karabakh conflict persists.

They are not “pro-Armenian”; they are the Armenian agitprop. They are not as simple as they seem. All of those groups operating in Armenia that are used to suppress dissent are subordinate to the same clan that rules the talking imperial heads. I know this from my own experience. Ensuring the right to free movement of citizens of our countries can be a good start for liberating these loyal followers of the Stalinist NKVD from the dictate.

Question:  I would like to ask you to express your expert assessment of the changes in the mass consciousness, moods of the Armenian population. Of course, opinions may be different about the conflict, Karabakh. You can list; say which ones come first, second, etc. What place will people of your position take in this ranking?

Answer:  My position is that human rights and freedoms should be the highest value for the authorities. The responsibility for war crimes and diplomatic failures should be borne by the authorities, not the citizens. My position is that good-neighborly relations with Azerbaijan and Turkey should be established. If the enemy at this stage has strong arguments in international law, and even more so, threatens war, it is necessary to choose the best option to save the lives of its citizens, including the military. In the general human rating, this position is in first place.

It is almost impossible to measure mass consciousness in such a country like Armenia. You can speculate about the rating of organizations, parties.  There are anti-imperial ones, but they do not publicly voice alternative options for resolving the conflict and the possibility of a compromise in the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict. Such figures have a large social base, but they themselves are passive. The social base of the left is even wider, but they themselves, the left, are not politically formalized, and as a result, they also do not voice any foreign policy alternatives. Unfortunately, liberal ideology is discredited in Armenia, and this is logical. We live a slave, barracks life, and can only dream of social justice and freedom from the guards. Therefore, so far there is only a social base for the left and “real” nationalists, those who stand up for the independence of Armenia.

Now all resources are concentrated in the hands of unprincipled populists who act under different flags. If this is considered a position, then we can say that they are still holding total control over the mass consciousness. Opening the border with Azerbaijan will weaken this control. Therefore, I call upon the Azerbaijanis to help, even if you do not really need it, I simply ask you to provide fraternal assistance to the neighboring people.

Question:  How do you think - what must or what can I. Aliyev give to the Armenians for permanent peace to come? What should and can Pashinyan give for this? Will Armenians and Azerbaijanis, two different peoples, accept the proposals you listed? Is a compromise possible now, after November 9, 2020?

Answer: - Aliyev and Pashinyan must finally resolve the Karabakh conflict. This is their official duty to the people. They must also find a way to deal with the aftermath of the two wars. This is also their job responsibility. If they cannot, let them resign. But this will not change the responsibilities of the next leader.

On November 9, 2020, a very important thing happened. Three signatories have proven they can stop the war. This means that they can also try to resolve the conflict. After the first Karabakh war, there was a completely different situation, there was some kind of mess, muddy water in which it was difficult to make out who was responsible for what, and who participated in what to what extent.

Question:  How do you assess the task and real deeds of the Russian peacekeepers in Karabakh? What can happen in the first five years of their activities in Nagorno Karabakh? As you know, every five years Baku and Yerevan will ask the Russians to stay or leave Karabakh.

Answer:  You can add one more option. Russians can leave Karabakh, Armenia, the region, having their own considerations.

Whether the peacekeepers are doing now their mission well or not, they themselves or their leadership can say. As long as the leaders of our countries are “at odds” and communicate with each other through Putin, there can be no parameters for assessing the activities of peacekeepers. We are now in the status of tamed savages. Whatever happens in the zone of control of peacekeepers or the FSB border service, they will not be to blame.

What can happen in the first five years, fifty years or tomorrow depends on the situation on the ground. The Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict affects the interests of all regional and non-regional players, but their actions, in my opinion, depend on the situation on the ground.

Can people who are determined to prevent war influence the situation? They can, in my opinion, if they realize that the authorities need to demand not only bread and circuses, but also peace and security. It is the 21st century. Information rules the world; we need specific actions in the information field, and specific actions that create an informational occasion. Everyone can try this management method. In the case of Armenia and Azerbaijan, everyone should try to change the situation now, and then it will be too late. If one fine morning we wake up and find out that we have the opportunity to get a visa and go by our car to Armenia/Azerbaijan, this will change our situation with you. Today we must start with small tasks, gradually mastering the territory of security, expanding the boundaries of safe coexistence of Azerbaijanis and Armenians. I do not see yet another method capable of preempting, preventing the next war for Karabakh. The war has been postponed; we must appreciate the time allotted to us.

Interviewed by Kamal Ali