Steinar Gil: I think my position was correct

This interview with Steinar Gil was recorded 7 years ago. In connection with the latest events and criticism of him by official Baku, we found it necessary to publish it again.

Former Norwegian Ambassador to Azerbaijan Steinar Gil was probably one of the most respected foreign diplomats who has ever worked in Azerbaijan. At the same time, he was one of the most disliked by the authorities. Suffice it to say that neither the Foreign Minister, nor the president of the country said goodbye to him, which was a manifestation of the extreme hostility of the authorities.

However, for the democratic public Gil became the embodiment of the best features of a representative of democracy, and the carrier of Western values. Today politicians, journalists, activists and ordinary people of Azerbaijan often remembered Steinar Gil, and compare every new arriving ambassador with him. Unfortunately, fewer such people are appointed to Azerbaijan.

When I was in Oslo I could not miss a chance to talk with the Nordic wolf (which is what we called Gil). Thanks to our friends from the Norwegian Helsinki Committee, we managed to find Steinar Gil, and he kindly agreed to come to a meeting and give an interview to Turan news agency. Mr. Ambassador has not changed over the years: the same stern look, but he has only to smile and there is nothing left of his stern look, and his slanting, pale-blue eyes sparkle like a child"s. He is the same taciturn and stolid person, and it is not easy to guess his emotions.

As of February 1, I resigned and now I work as a teacher and I am writing a book - with these words, Steinar Gil started a conversation with me at the Norwegian National Theatre, where the Freedom Forum was held last week.

- I did not sever links with my friends in Azerbaijan after my departure in 2006, and all four years while I worked as ambassador to Lithuania, the fate of Azerbaijanis was not a matter of indifference to me, especially since I have seen a constant deterioration of the situation.

- The Azerbaijani authorities called you a biased person who did not love Azerbaijan, and said that you had broken diplomatic etiquette. How did it happen that you spoiled relations with the authorities?

- It all began with the elections ion 2003, and even earlier, in December 2002.
Somehow my wife phoned me and said that the police were beating people in the city center.

I immediately came over and saw people lying unconscious on the ground and being beaten on the head with truncheons. For us it was a great shock, and I condemn it all. After the presidential elections in October 2003 the police again beat and arrested people in the square, and some people approached me and asked me for asylum.

They were Rauf Arifoglu, Ilgar Ibrahimoglu and Elmar Huseynov. The first two stayed for three or four days, but Elmar left. The reason for their appeal to me was a threat of arrest and abduction. I could not refuse people who asked me for help, especially because what was happening around testified that their fear was justified. Suffice it to say that they wanted to arrest Ilgar Ibrahimoglu right in the mosque. At the same time, I was in a difficult situation, because I could not keep them for long.

Therefore, I turned first to my leadership and received their support. Then I contacted the authorities of Azerbaijan and demanded that force should not be applied to the people that had taken refuge in my residence. It was clear that the authorities would arrest them, but I could at least not allow the government to do the same to them as it had done to others. I am very glad that I managed it and I was able to convince Khalaf Khalafov (Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs) and the Ministry of Internal Affairs to agree to my demand. However, they tried to cheat me. The next day I received a call from Rauf Arifoglu, who said that a crowd of people in civilian clothes were gathered in front of where he was staying; they were sent to crack down on him. I immediately called the Interior Minister and demanded an explanation, and he went to the place. After 15 minutes the police came into my sight and moved the crowd. After that they called me and said that nobody had ever gathered in the place and it just seemed to me they did (laughs).

- How is this perceived from the European viewpoint?

- Of course the differences are large. For example, we have corruption here too. But in your society it is quite different. Or elections are held differently. As one of your leaders said, an election is not the will of the people, but hormet (Azeri word for respect) for the authorities (laughs). My impression is that since the masterpiece "Ali and Nino" was written, nothing has changed. And I think my criticism of how the elections were held irritated the authorities most seriously. So it was in 2003 and 2005.

- Do you agree that you were outside the scope of a diplomat?

- No, when it comes to human rights, safety and even lives, we cannot remain indifferent. What is diplomatic etiquette? It is your attitude toward the environment. You can pretend that you neither see nor hear, but how can you then live with this?

I often spoke to the press in Azerbaijan, and gave my assessment. Sometimes journalists printed what I said that was not for publication, and that irritated the authorities even more. I think some things I said were probably not worth saying, but overall, Ido not regret anything.

- How did the authorities make it clear that they were not satisfied with your activity?

- Nobody said that explicitly. At the beginning there were talks with the Minister Vilayat Guliyev, and then Elmar Mamedyarov, and they both talked to me nicely. Your authorities complained to my superiors. Fortunately, human rights are important for my country, and the Norwegian Foreign Ministry supported me, although I admit, not in everything.

- Let's move away from the theme of politics. You were well acquainted with the late Elmar Huseynov. How do you remember him?

- You know, I still keep all the numbers of "Monitor "and I still look through them and reread them. Elmar was a very gifted, brave and capable man. I went and bought his magazine every week. Shortly before the murder, he was my guest. He understood that there was a serious threat, but he did not want to go anywhere.

- Do you regret that you did not persuade him to leave?

- Of course I do! If we could have persuaded him, he would have stayed alive, and much more could have been done. But it was his decision, and we should respect it. In fact, not only I, but also other embassies offered him to leave, because they all felt and understood the situation. But he did not want to become a political emigrant and sit on welfare in another country. And the fact that his murder was never solved, says something about the matter too... I was in Moscow on March 2. I received a call from Eynullah Fatullayev from Baku, and he told me the terrible news. It was a shock. I"m sorry I could not hold his last journey. By the way, the Fatullayev case is also very significant and shows the attitude of the authorities to European values and their obligations. I find it hard to imagine that any other member of the Council of Europe could ignore the decision of the European Court of Human Rights.

- What do you think of such political regimes?

- Authoritarian or dictatorial regimes are in many respects similar to each other, in spite of external differences. The strength of these regimes is largely in the role and power of their intelligence services and the whole apparatus of repression. In Azerbaijan, this force is considerable. This tool works quite well, but it fails. Have a look at the situation in the Arab world. Even in countries such as Syria and Libya, the authorities were unable to suppress popular demonstrations and they are continuing, despite the hundreds of victims. Six months ago, none of this could ever be imagined. This suggests that the growth of self-consciousness decreases the public fear of the repressive apparatus, and this unit itself begins to lose power.

We should be well aware that human rights are not an internal problem and the international community will not turn a blind eye to the breach. But civil society should also be active; a political struggle costs victims.

- You can often hear it said that authoritarian regimes are so tenacious because of the support of Western countries with their economic and political interests, including the factor of oil. Do you agree?

- Yes, it happens. Take Belarus for example. The West has put a lot of pressure on the authorities of that country and imposes sanctions on them, including President Lukashenko. But if there was oil in Belarus, the ratio would probably be different. It is difficult for this to happen in relations with Azerbaijan. At the same time, I do not see any obstacles to the development of democracy in Azerbaijan.

- Would you like to come to our country again?

- Of course, I often recall the period of my work in Azerbaijan, with its people and nature. I really liked your country, especially in the regions of wonderful nature and ordinary people - e.g. Shamakhi, Sheki, and Oguz. God willing, I"ll come, but at present my wife and I are going to Nepal. Hello, everyone who remembers me.

Oslo-Baku